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THE SECOND FARAGE CLEGG DEBATE: UKIP LEADER CRUSHES!

Once again, it seems that UKIP Leader Nigel Farage clearly won the debate, this time on British television (BBC 2 channel) on April 2.

The tale of the tape based on the UK Guardian:

Guardian ICM poll results – 69% say Farage won, 31% say Clegg won

Here are the headline Guardian ICM figures.

Who won?

Farage – 69%

Clegg – 31%

Want more, try this You Gov poll tweeted by the Sun newspapers:

BREAKING: FARAGE WINS: Farage, 68%; Nick Clegg, 27%. Don’t know, 5%. http://bit.ly/QGeUvo 

Some more fascinating stuff:

38% more likely to vote Ukip after debate, Guardian ICM poll shows

Here is more from the Guardian ICM poll.

Would you vote to leave the EU?

Definitely/probably vote to stay in the EU – 39%

Definitely/probably vote to leave the EU – 53%

Has what you’ve heard changed our mind about leaving the EU?

Yes, it’s changed my mind – 16%

No, it’s already made up – 69%

Has what you’ve heard in the debate made you more or less likely to vote Lib Dem in the European elections?

More likely – 7%

Less likely – 43%

No difference – 44%

Has what you’ve heard in the debate made you more or less likely to vote Ukip in the European elections?

More likely – 38%

Less likely – 17%

No difference – 37%

I think the substance was the most compelling aspect of the debate – with Farage reminding me of Ron Paul (although Farage is a better debater than Ron Paul but that is style points only understand) and Nick Clegg seeming to try too hard – perhaps desperate.

On foreign policy – Farage said that the EU overthrew the elected, albeit imperfect government in Ukraine and this is the reason for Putin’s takeover of Crimea.  He does not want the UK to be part of the militaristic imperial EU system that is trying develop an army and air force.

Clegg had nothing to say but a lame joke (check out this from this report on the debate), an ad hominem attack on Farage as an isolationist and an attempt to change the subject to Syria – how Putin could make one phone call to the most terrible dictator in the world, President Assad of Syria (I would have interrupted the Deputy PM to say, you mean worse than North Korea?) and end this conflict there.

I am glad Farage criticized intervention in Libya as ineffective and making the situation worse and I am also glad Farage said he was against intervention in Syria, too.

On immigration, which I think is UKIP’s weakest position, they clearly won, in spite of the opinion of the live blogger at the Guardian (Andrew Sparrow):

Immigration and integration

Q: Does immigration have an impact on cohesion?

Farage says it does. The white working class have been left out. There is a danger of an underclass being created.

Clegg says this gets to the nub of the issue. He says he loves modern, integrated Britain.

Q: What about the argument the white working class has been left behind?

Clegg says you need to expand skills, and expand training.

Farage says you have not got this power. He would be in favour of an immigration policy based on people obey the laws. But the EU stops this.

Question 4 – Verdict: Clegg sounded more reasonable, and Farage sounded hyperbolic, so I think Clegg edged this one.

I am not Andrew Sparrow but I think every nation ought to be able to decide when immigrants get benefits and to control their borders.

I also think Farage’s attempt to reach the Reagan Democrats of the UK, the Joe six-pack Labour voter, might work.

I still believe that you have to argue how the EU hinders freedom and sovereignty in the UK – give the people specific examples!

Now to tweets from the Guardian article that I like:

Andrew Pierce:  Resounding victory for Farage with Clegg shouty and bad tempered as he realised he was drowning.

George Eaton:  Farage’s only weak moment came over Putin – and most voters share his isolationism. Polls will give him another big win.

Jenni Russell:  I thought Farage won that. He’is just a much more attractive public personality and politician than Clegg – even to UKIP opposers like me

Jeremy Cliffe: All told was good for Farage, mixed for Clegg and pretty terrible for the pro-European cause.

Rafael Behr: Clegg did pro-EU cause service by stress-testing arguments. Sadly, they seem to withstand stress poorly.

esmewren:  Interesting analysis from Peter Kellner from YouGov – more Labour supporters sided with UKIP tonight, last week they went for Clegg…

James Chapman (Mail):  Two polls call it 2:1 for Farage. Huge boon for UKIP into Euro elections. Lib Dems must now ask themselves whether debates wise

And maybe the most clever tweet – Hugo Rifkind:  You know things are weird when the guy who wants to smash the system is a toff called Nigel who spent 20 yrs working as a commodities broker

Now this report I alluded to earlier for the lame joke-

What on earth was he [Clegg] playing at? What possessed him and his advisors to think that a seemingly endless tirade composed of personal insults would impress anyone? And what was that joke? “If I’m the leader of ‘the party of in’, he’s the leader of the party of Putin!”

Get it? (IN and Put…IN.)  Yes. It’s that bad. The two things Clegg appears to have forgotten here are that 1) No-one over the age of five is going to be impressed by that, and 2) you can’t vote in Britain until you’re 18.

-This report basically suggests this debate set back the europhile cause greatly.  I sure hope so.  I cannot wait for May 22 – the Euro elections.  Liberty cannot win a majority I am afraid (Partly because the European libertarians failed to take my advice to set up a EU-wide non-racist liberty party!) but can make a lot of noise!  Alas not every euroskeptic political party in some EU nations are non-racist and legitimate, although I admire Marine Le Pen’s attempt to mainstream the Front National.  But liberty is a deep-seated desire in people – God placed it there:  “…where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”  II Cor. 3:17 (KJV)

 

 

About Elwood Sanders

Elwood “Sandy” Sanders is a Hanover attorney who is an Appellate Procedure Consultant for Lantagne Legal Printing and has written ten scholarly legal articles. Sandy was also Virginia’s first Appellate Defender and also helped bring curling in VA! (None of these titles imply any endorsement of Sanders’ views)

3 Responses to “THE SECOND FARAGE CLEGG DEBATE: UKIP LEADER CRUSHES!”

  1. Henry Francis says:

    It has been calculated over half UK laws now originate from the EU and are merely rubber stamped by our coalition government who are left no other choice in the matter. Our politicians are reduced to little more than puppets of our real undemocratic unelected masters in Brussels I mean Luxembourg sorry should have said Strasbourg meby! ONE THING IS CERTAIN IT’S NOT LONDON!

    Here’s the idiots guide to these real UK rulers. Theres the European Commission; The European Council; The Council of Europe; The Council of European Union; The European Parliament which has to have an army of translators to even function at all plus many other bodies The ones listed above are all based in Strasbourg And we havn’t even started on those bodies in Brussels and Luxembourg. Then there the Council of Europe isn’t even officially part of the EU and which must not be confused with The European Council or The Council of the European Union which are. We haven’t even touched on the European Court of Human Rights that’s another can of worms right there.

    All these large growing (They are one of the few growth industries left in the EU zone) all boast huge laberinthine separate bureauracies to staff and run them with huge opportunities for duplication of effort and departments or conflict of interests like spending millions on Barcelona football stars to run expensive ads to get Europeans to quit smoking while in the building next door they dole out 260 billion euros in subsidies to help tobacco growers.

    The UKs National Debt is approaching 1.6 trillion and rising. If you ran your house like that you would wind up in jail! Though not if your name is Maria Millar it seems.

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    Tom White Says:

    Nothing is more conservative than a republican wanting to get their majority back. And nothing is more liberal than a republican WITH a majority.

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