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UPDATED: The Truth on Bush and the Economic Collapse of 2008 and Political Lies

Editor’s note: I wrote this as a comment to a reader who still blames Bush for everything and would support a third term for Obama because Bush was so horrible. He made some claims about gas prices that were not true (we have data!) and like many people does not really understand the complex events that lead to the economic disaster that helped usher in Obama. But I would be the first to admit that John McCain would have been a worse disaster than Obama. The easy “Blame Bush” Democrat meme is something that works well on the low information voters and is simply too simplistic to be true. Ours is a massive economy and things that help or hurt it usually take years. The problem with a lot of Democrats is they are unable to comprehend complex series of events like our economic crash or they simply don’t want to comprehend the truth. Either way, it is important to understand what got us here and how the Obama Administration has actually benefited – albeit reluctantly – from fracking and weak worldwide economic situations. The 2008 crash was a long series of events, adaptations and human interference in the “invisible hand” Adam Smith wrote about. – Tom

Editor’s Note #2: Gene Lefty, as expected, came back with a comment challenging my facts and figures, accusing me of manipulating data by using partial data, not comparing apples to apples, etc. And also as expected his wild assertions have no links to support his statements, broad generalizations and Liberal talking points that are like like crack to the left. And as usual, I am accused of blaming others for Republican leadership failure. While hypocritically, Gene Gene the Liberal Machine is doing exactly that. So at the end of this post are answers to Gene’s comments, at least the coherent ones, and they are all supported with links and facts. Not facts from a Conservative source like Fox News, but rather from Government Data agencies and various left of center sources.

A reader comment reads:

If it came down to either an establishment Republican, or Obama?

I will double down and not only vote for Obama, I will send him a campaign check. How much is gas now? What are the unemployment numbers? And you think he can’t win?

I ain’t about to go back to 2008, and let the establishment Republican’s pillage and destroy our economy again. $4.00 gas, 10% unemployment?

Obama would carry the blacks, women, Hispanics, millions on Obamacare, the poor. Need I go on? Remember, Bush 43′ purchased votes with his prescription plan? Obama purchased a whole lot more votes for a Democrats with Obamacare.

And Tom, stop playing games, you are going to vote Republican not matter what.

And added:

Let’t talk about that, good point! Clinton left office with a balanced annual budget, keep that in mind.

Soon after Bush 43′ left office, our government began sending $85 Billion a month in QE to Wall St. banks to basically buy up the bad mortgages from the Bush years. Over $1,000,000,000,000, (trillion), year after year, to buy up bad mortgages from Wall St. Banks.

Then, there was the unfunded Bush wars. More Trillions . And the bailout Trillion, +.

Who was it who said GM was not going down on his watch? Hint; Bush 43′.

I ain’t going back to that. These facts are what they are. Easily verified. Also, no one from the Bush administration has ever taken responsibility for 911. What, about 3000 killed?

And yet, you want to talk about Benghazi?

And this:

No, I believe gasoline was about $1.40 when he took office, down from $4.00 the previous summer. You see, nobody needed gas after Bush 43′ destroyed our economy. So, there was a glut in the market for just a few months.

Never before, or since Bush 43′, was gasoline $4.00 a gallon.

Nice try.

And my response: Let’s get some facts straight. All of this is well documented.

Gasoline prices when Bush started his second term: (2005 yearly average) $2.246
Gasoline prices when Obama started his first term: (2009 yearly average) $2.342

National average 8/1/08-9/27/08, in run up to 2008 election: $3.744
National average 8/1/12-9/27/12, in run up to 2012 election: $3.754

National average 1/1/2005-12/31/2008 under Bush: $2.707
National average 1/1/2009-9/17/2012 under Obama: $3.070

The highest that the national average hit during each President’s tenure:
Bush: $4.122, July 15, 2008 (all time record high)
Obama: $3.965, May 11, 2011

The lowest that the national average hit during each President’s tenure:
Bush: $1.611, December 31, 2008
Obama: $1.817, January 24, 2009 (days after sworn in)

Source – Gas Buddy

And for the record, that article is 3 years old. This picture gives the 10 year average for Richmond.

10 Year Richmond Gas Prices

CLick here to create your own charts.

Bush had highs and lows, but clearly gas prices under Obama show higher lows and highs. The only reason gas has not skyrocketed under Obama is fracking. We are producing more energy than we need and natural gas has replaced oil to run power plants. Leaving the oil for gasoline and other fuels.

So overall, Bush wins on oil by a large amount.

And the “Clinton” balanced budget was produced by a Republican House and Senate as the Republicans like to remind us. However, what actually balanced the budget was not reduced spending, but rather an unprecedented event known as Y2K. Everything from microwaves to supercomputers were replaced in a span of only 2 to 3 years. There was so much economic activity related to Y2K that manufacturers could not hire enough workers, items like hard drives and memory were always on back order. We have never seen anything like that and are not likely to see it again. And remember the Dot Com revolution? That happened at about the same time. All of the wealthy people were out to make a fast buck and they invested trillions in start ups. Money that is now sitting back in the rich folk’s banks because Obama has made producing wealth almost a crime. The Republicans pushed out a tax cut in Capitol Gains in 1997 that encouraged the wealthy to put their money in these ventures. And between the Cap Gains cut and Y2K US Tax revenue went through the roof. And you will note that Clinton NEVER talks about that tax cut and how well it worked. Because it goes against the “tax cuts for the rich” meme the Democrats love to use to win elections.

And by the end of Clinton’s second term, the US was in a recession. Even CNN admits Bush inherited a recession.

But of course all of the predictive models said the increased tax revenue would continue to rise, so the trajectory for spending went up steeply – and never went down.

And what were the Democrats doing while America was rolling in productivity and tax revenue and balanced budget (singular)? Well, people like Barney Frank and Tim Kaine were working on making the American dream happen for the poor. They used statistical data to prove banks were “redlining” borrowers in poor black sections of the country. They were being declined for mortgages at a higher rate than their more affluent fellow citizens in wealthier neighborhoods. So the banks must be racists. So Barney Frank and his fellow “wealth distribution” socialists began passing laws to force banks to loan money to these “redlined” people. The American Dream and all that.

Well, that went slowly at first until Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac began backing loans and Federal Regulators began forcing banks to loan to people who were redliners or face exposure as racists. Interestingly, in the Richmond Area I remember the newspaper used to publish the statistics of banks who deny loans to people in low income areas to shame them. And Consolidated Bank and Trust was by far the worst offender. Consolidated Bank, in case you don’t know, was started by Maggie Walker, a black woman. And the bank had only black employees and officers. Minority Owned banks. So it was Ok. (I used to work on some of their computer, coin and bill counting equipment and never dealt with a white or Hispanic or Asian person.)

So the loans we now know were poor risks were forced on the banks by the Democrats. But while the economy was rolling, and money flowed ’round and ’round the “rocks” were well below the surface. A rising tide lifts all bots.

So on January 1, 2000 the Y2K money stopped. It came to a screeching halt. Companies and consumers had pushed their purchases to the late 90’s and tech purchases stopped abruptly. As a Senior Engineer in the tech field, things were horrible. Pink slips became a weekly event. Jobs in the tech sector went away. Salaries crashed and burned. And worse, the investments encouraged by the Cap Gains tax cut were pulled out of the tech market.

So what would the rich do with all this money they wanted to invest?

They turned to Real Estate. In the first few years of the 2000’s a massive era of new home construction began. I now work for a brick and block distributor having lost my tech job in the tech bust. My boss said for years that they built more houses than they should have and we sold more brick than we should have. He predicted the collapse. And he is a smart guy. And the company took measures to withstand the expected bust to come. But the duration was far worse than he predicted. We are still not back to the pre boom days.

But during the boom, investors unleashed in Real Estate. Bas loans dominated the market, but as long as the money flowed, all was good. Enter the bundlers. They sold investment portfolios under the theory that you put a mixture of good and bad loans in a package and the average would work out to a profit for the buyers. But many of these loans were given to people who could never afford them and the only way they qualified was a one year adjustable rate, balloon payments and other financial gimmicks. But the economy dropped, the war in Iraq sapped our Treasury as we moved into nation building under Bush and wasted trillions.

And our economy became a house of cards thanks to people like Barney Frank and Tim Kaine forcing banks to loan to people who did not qualify. Jobs disappeared and huge payments, agreed to by borrowers, came due. And all these beautiful new houses were abandoned. The Real Estate Market collapsed. You can blame the bundlers or the Derivatives Market, but all they were doing was trying to turn lemons into lemonade. Something had to be done with the bad loans. Millions of them. Those guys got a lot of the blame, but all they really did was draw out the inevitable crash.

So who knocked over the first card in our house of cards?

Democrat Chuck Schumer, that’s who. On June 27, 2008 Chuck sent a letter to Indymac bank questioning their viability. And the idiot made it public. That caused a run on the bank and it collapsed, followed by more and more. The Tech sector collapsed, 9/11 hit us, war, the Real Estate Bubble burst and now the banking sector followed suit.

So to sum it up, Y2K heated up the economy. No one’s fault. Just a thing.
Capitol Gains tax cut stimulated investment. Republican bill, Clinton signed it. Overall, probably a good thing.
9/11. A bad blow to the economy, but the war probably pulled us out of that. Credit Bush for the 9/11 recovery.
Nation Building 2 countries. Trillions lost, too many American lives and zero results. Fault Bush. Bomb them and go home. Let them sort it out. Repeat as necessary.
Real Estate bubble? Barney Frank and the Democrats get the blame for this one.
Banking Collapse? Barney Frank, Schumer and the Democrats.

And guess what Obama is doing now? He is forcing “affordable housing” subsidized by the Federal Government in upscale developments and neighborhoods. Redlining all over again. Obama didn’t learn that putting people in houses they can’t afford is not a good thing. Only this time around the Taxpayer will be on the hook.

And no, Gene. I will not necessarily vote for a Republican. I absolutely will not be voting for a Democrat because that is as bad or worse. But I won’t be able to cast a vote for another McCain or Romney who are no different from Hillary or Sanders. My vote must be earned from now on. I learned a lesson from the last 2 worthless GOP Presidential candidates. Never again. The only candidates so far that have a shot at my vote are Donald Trump and Ted Cruz – in that order. Things may change, but Jeb Bush will never earn my vote. And if they do not earn my vote I will be unable to cast a vote for that particular office.

I hope this brief-ish lesson in reality helps you understand how we got where we are. It was not Bush’s fault entirely. But I blame him for the nation building. But I give little credit to the Republicans either. In truth, the blame is mostly on the Democrats, but you must be a critical thinker and able to understand the complex series of events that got us where we are today.

And by the way, our oil imports are down quite a bit. One of the reasons gas has historically had these huge fluctuations is because the exchange rate fluctuates. QE or pumping devalued the dollar, but the good news is that most other nations currency is in the toilet as well. So while we are paying a higher average under Obama we are buying less oil and producing more. If Obama and the Democrats put an end to fracking like they want to do we will have to go back to the world market for most of our oil and the weak dollar cause oil prices to rise. America’s lessened dependence on foreign oil is only due to fracking. And that is absolutely not credited to Obama. In fact, if he had his way the price of gas would be $10 or higher to force us to stop driving.

Responses to Gene Gene the Liberal Machine’s Comments, accusations and aspersions

Now before I start, let me assure my Conservative friends that I am fully experienced in dealing with brainwashed liberals. And I completely understand that no amount of facts, no citations from any source no matter who the source is will change the minds of these far left Zombies. They have swallowed the lies, half truths and bumper sticker slogans that the Liberals on the left spew. There is no need to check facts from anything coming from Democrats, Progressives, Liberals, Socialists, etc. because they believe they are truth. And liberals are completely unable to use logic and critical thinking to see through the liberal lies. If they could they would be Conservatives. But every now and then I like to indulge myself because from time to time, other Conservatives search for facts to bolster their argument, so they Google things and we are able to provide them.

First the comments and then a breakdown of each comment / question / challenge.

1) Want to put up a chart showing gas prices? Then put on up a chart showing the entire 8 years Bush 43′ was in the White House. Use Clinton’s 8 years also if you like. Stop trying to deceive the base with half of something. I used approximate local gasoline prices.

2) Stop making excuses for the Republican Party, and the poor performance of their Leadership. The President takes responsibility for everything that happens on his watch. Good or Bad. Using your “sorry assed excuse” type reasoning, no President is responsible for anything. It is always the other guy. But, that is the way you like it?

3) One of the hallmarks of Republican leadership is to always blame the other guy when the numbers show quite the opposite. The Republican’s controlled all three branches of government from ABOUT 2000-2006. It was they who could have stopped the mortgage problem. As the majority, the responsibility was theirs.

However, the party was making so much money off the bad mortgage’s and related rip off fee’s that they choose not to do so. In other words, the middle-class and poor were being financially taken advantage of when they purchased a home. The Republican’s were operating like a pig in slop. The slop being the middle-class and poors cash. Basically, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac money was ending up in Republican’s pockets.

I believe that the chairman of the Federal Reserve under Bush 43′ at least apologized for his part in destroying our economy. However, Bush 43′ never did. Why did Greenspan apologize if what I say is not true? Just what did Greenspan apologize for?

4) You failed to comment on who is to be held responsible for 911??? Does that mean you will tell us later? Perhaps next time someone mentions Bengazi? And, to top it all off, Bush 43′ promoted his National Security Adviser to Secretary of State?? What a frekin’ joke that was???????

5) Hello Bob, thanks for your rhetoric. I have offered to debate the Tea Party openly on topics such as ObamaCare on at least 2 occasions. I was turned down both times. Why are you afraid of your people being told the truth? Do their marching orders have to come thru 1140 AM and Faux News? What are you afraid of Bob, losing control when your people find out that they have been fleeced?

6) My words have the power of the truth, Tom. Your word processor has been running on Viagra for far too long.

Your Friend,

Gene

And my responses:

1) Want to put up a chart showing gas prices? Then put on up a chart showing the entire 8 years Bush 43′ was in the White House. Use Clinton’s 8 years also if you like. Stop trying to deceive the base with half of something. I used approximate local gasoline prices.

Sure. And I can see you simply accepted Debbie Wassermen-Schultz claim that we don’t want to go back to the days of $4.00+ a gallon gas like we had under Bush without looking at historic data. And for your benefit, we will only look at the first 79 months of Bush and Obama so you can see I am not trying to deceive anyone here. If you had checked DWS’s claim, you would know that during Bush’s first term we were treated to really cheap gasoline. And that gas only topped $4 for 2 months. And can you guess which 2 months they were? If you guessed June and July of 2008 you would be correct. And do you remember what happened then? That’s right. The US Economy crashed and burned. But guess what the Republicans did. If you said “Drill baby Drill” to get the price of oil to drop you would be correct. Every Republican in sight of a microphone repeated that phrase. And did it work? You’re damn Skippy! The price of oil dropped like a stone. The average price of a gallon of gas went from $4.06 in July to $1.62 in December. Bam! Obama got his first term off to a great start thanks to George W. Bush! But as soon as Obama was inaugurated he scared the markets with his plans and hatred of oil and gas. So gas when he took office was $1.79 in January, $1.92 in February and $1.96 in March. And gas has not been below $2.00 since.

Check out this chart that I imported into a spreadsheet so we could look at the data and do some calculations. The data came from a government agency, the US Energy Information Administration and can be found by clicking this link. Also, so you can check my formulas and my data, the spreadsheet can be downloaded here.

So, as you can see prices under Bush’s first term were mostly under $2.00. In fact, let’s look at the highlights:

  • The lowest price under Bush was $1.09
  • The lowest price under Obama was $1.79
  • The highest price under Bush in his first 79 months was $3.57
  • The highest price under Obama so far has been $3.91
  • The average price under Bush for the first 79 months was $1.91
  • The average price under Obama has been $3.09
  • Bush’s lowest monthly average was 39% lower than Obama’s lowest price
  • Bush’s highest monthly price was 9% lower than Obama’s record high.

And as you pointed out, you consider it deceptive to use differing amounts of data. But even adding in the 2 months where gas topped $4 under Bush, his average price for his entire term was $2.13, 31% lower than Obama. And as I said, it was 2 months during the worst financial disaster of our lifetimes.

And here is another graph made from the same data.

The blue line represents the monthly US average for gas from 1/1/2001 until 7/31/2015. It wasn’t until very recently that gas under Obama cost less than under Bush. And do you know why that is? What happened in July 2014 when gas dropped from $3.61 to $2.12? Did Obama do something brilliant?

Of course not. It was announced that America was now the largest producer of oil and gas, overtaking the Russians and Saudi Arabia. Because of Bush’s commitment to Drill Baby Drill. And fracking. As Bloomberg put it:

July 4 (Bloomberg) — The U.S. will remain the world’s biggest oil producer this year after overtaking Saudi Arabia and Russia as extraction of energy from shale rock spurs the nation’s economic recovery, Bank of America Corp. said.

U.S. production of crude oil, along with liquids separated from natural gas, surpassed all other countries this year with daily output exceeding 11 million barrels in the first quarter, the bank said in a report today. The country became the world’s largest natural gas producer in 2010. The International Energy Agency said in June that the U.S. was the biggest producer of oil and natural gas liquids.

“The U.S. increase in supply is a very meaningful chunk of oil,” Francisco Blanch, the bank’s head of commodities research, said by phone from New York. “The shale boom is playing a key role in the U.S. recovery. If the U.S. didn’t have this energy supply, prices at the pump would be completely unaffordable.”

Oil extraction is soaring at shale formations in Texas and North Dakota as companies split rocks using high-pressure liquid, a process known as hydraulic fracturing, or fracking. The surge in supply combined with restrictions on exporting crude is curbing the price of West Texas Intermediate, America’s oil benchmark. The U.S., the world’s largest oil consumer, still imported an average of 7.5 million barrels a day of crude in April, according to the Department of Energy’s statistical arm.

But on March 20, 2015 Obama announced more regulations on fracking. And look what happened to the prices starting in March. His new regulations just added $.68 to the price in only4 months.

The liberal New York Times reported:

The Obama administration on Friday unveiled the nation’s first major federal regulations on hydraulic fracturing, a technique for oil and gas drilling that has led to a significant increase in American energy production but has also raised concerns about health and safety risks.

The Interior Department began drafting the rules, focused on drilling safety, in Mr. Obama’s first term after breakthroughs in the technology, also known as fracking, led to a surge in the production of oil and gas.

The fracking boom has put the United States on track to soon become the world’s largest oil and gas producer. But environmentalists fear that the technique, which involves injecting a cocktail of chemicals deep underground to break up the rocks around oil and gas deposits, could contaminate surrounding water supplies and wildlife.

They fail to point out a link to any harm done to the environment. Only a “fear” it “could” contaminate something or other.

So there are the numbers on gas prices under Obama and Bush. Your Debbie Wasserman-Schultz used two data points out of 96 to make you believe gas prices were higher under Bush. You challenge everything I have written. So where is the apology and your new campaign to expose the lies of the Democrats? Let’s just say I won’t hold my breath. Truth is inconvenient to liberals.

2) Stop making excuses for the Republican Party, and the poor performance of their Leadership. The President takes responsibility for everything that happens on his watch. Good or Bad. Using your “sorry assed excuse” type reasoning, no President is responsible for anything. It is always the other guy. But, that is the way you like it?

Being responsible for what happens under his watch is part of holding the office. So as I have proven, Obama is responsible for higher gas prices by just announcing unnecessary regulation. Bush actually forced the prices down with “drill baby drill”. But being ultimately responsible for something is not the same as causing it. We are addressing cause. A straw man argument that the president is responsible is of no value. And I blame Republicans for their misdeeds. It is YOU that refuses to blame Obama or Democrats for anything at all. Nothing but excuses. Blame Bush.

3) One of the hallmarks of Republican leadership is to always blame the other guy when the numbers show quite the opposite. The Republican’s controlled all three branches of government from ABOUT 2000-2006. It was they who could have stopped the mortgage problem. As the majority, the responsibility was theirs.

However, the party was making so much money off the bad mortgage’s and related rip off fee’s that they choose not to do so. In other words, the middle-class and poor were being financially taken advantage of when they purchased a home. The Republican’s were operating like a pig in slop. The slop being the middle-class and poors cash. Basically, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac money was ending up in Republican’s pockets.

I believe that the chairman of the Federal Reserve under Bush 43′ at least apologized for his part in destroying our economy. However, Bush 43′ never did. Why did Greenspan apologize if what I say is not true? Just what did Greenspan apologize for?

Well, Gene. I expect you to admit your accusations about gas prices are absolutely wrong. Because the numbers show quite a different story. And then you blame Republicans because they had all 3 houses. But again, you are wrong. Most people thought the handful of economists screaming “bubble” were fringe elements in 2006. And some as late as 2008. However, it was the Republicans that wanted to fix things, but it was probably already too late.

And Republicans did sound the alarm. Bush as early as 2001 and repeatedly after that. Sorry this clip is from Fox, but you can Google the quotes and facts and find them on a liberal rag I am sure. And the second clip is even more evidence in the Democrats own words. The left and the press was busy blocking Republican efforts to contain the damages and reel in Fannie and Freddie. And they were in complete denial because they were the ones raking in the money. Barney Frank got almost $50,000 from Fannie and got his boyfriend a job with them.

Need more evidence the Democrats are to blame?

So no. You have it exactly backwards. Republicans tried to fix the problem, Democrats were the pigs in the slop. And in complete denial. And Bush did all he could. But the Democrats blocked him on fixing the problems.

And the only thing Greenspan “apologized” for was not predicting that the people making a living making loans would do something so destructive and collapse their own livelihoods. He did say that in retrospect maybe he should have raised interest rates. But again, the Democrats wanted loans for the poor so they could live the American dream.

4) You failed to comment on who is to be held responsible for 911??? Does that mean you will tell us later? Perhaps next time someone mentions Bengazi? And, to top it all off, Bush 43′ promoted his National Security Adviser to Secretary of State?? What a frekin’ joke that was???????

Well, if you want to blame someone other than the terrorists, why not blame Clinton. He had the chance to take him out and declined. At least three times.

Read the story here.

And the inept and greedy Hillary Clinton and the dufus John Kerry couldn’t hold a candle to Condi Rice. She is smarter than Obama and his entire cabinet.

6) My words have the power of the truth, Tom. Your word processor has been running on Viagra for far too long.

Pretty much not a single word of what you wrote is true. And my Word Processor is standing as tall as ever on the side of the REAL truth, not the spin you Democrats regurgitate. Why not do your due diligence on the lies you recite from the DNC? The Republicans are no choir boys, but when it comes to lies the Democrats are tops. For crying out loud, can’t you even Google gas prices to verify what these Democrats claim? TWO MONTHS out of 96 months Bush had $4+ gas and you believe it was his entire term.

To be honest Gene, the Democrats would disappear as a party without gullible people like you that hang from their lips and take every word as Gospel.

And you read this blog enough to know I probably have more Republicans that hate me than I do Democrats. I tell then to stuff the fictitious Regan’s 11th Commandment and I call them out way more than I do Democrats. McConnell and Boehner are liars, plain and simple. So was Cantor. Remember how I went after that scumbag? Even recorded I’m an Eric Cantor Zombie to make fun of the RINO’s and Cantorites that are too stupid to know when Cantor tells them lies. Sound like someone you know? Just look in the mirror sometime. You are an Obama Zombie.

I will tell you right now, you cannot believe a word that comes out of the mouths of ANY politician without proof, documentation a a lot of follow up. Because they will screw you every chance they get. There are no political parties in Washington. Just one group of corrupt liars. Political Parties exist to fool the idiots back home.

And on your final point, Gene, from your latest comment:

One thing that is key to your reasoning, Tom?

You want the Republican’s in the House and Senate to wrongly take credit for the budget that Clinton balanced during his 8 years as President.

Now, in your rant, about 6 years later, you want to blame the minority party in the House and Senate (Democrats) for the mortgage crisis, when the Republican’s had majority control in the House and Senate, plus the White House.

How does that work, Tom? Nothing but “base bait”. You cannot have it both ways.

History Gene. The Republicans wanted to balance the budget in 7 years back in the 90’s and Newt Gingrich, then the Speaker of the House insisted on doing it in 4 years. The Republican budget – thank Newt Gingrich – set us on a course to balance the budget with tax cuts.

Wiki is a pretty liberal source, and this is what they say:

Although congressional Republicans had opposed Clinton’s Deficit Reduction Act of 1993, a key aspect of the 1994 Contract with America was the promise of a balanced federal budget. After the end of the government shutdown, Gingrich and other Republican leaders acknowledged that Congress would not be able to draft a balanced budget in 1996. Instead, they opted to approve some small reductions that were already approved by the White House and to wait until the next election season.[50]

By May 1997, Republican congressional leaders reached a compromise with Democrats and President Clinton on the federal budget. The agreement called for a federal spending plan designed to reduce the federal deficit and achieve a balanced budget by 2002. The plan included a total of $152 billion in bipartisan tax cuts over five years.[51] Other major parts of the spending plan called for $115 billion to be saved through a restructuring of Medicare, $24 billion set aside to extend health insurance to children of the working poor, tax credits for college tuition, and a $2 billion welfare-to-work jobs initiative.[52][53]

President Clinton signed the budget legislation in August 1997. At the signing, Gingrich gave credit to ordinary Americans stating, “It was their political will that brought the two parties together.”[51]

In early 1998, with the economy performing better than expected, increased tax revenues helped reduce the federal budget deficit to below $25 billion. Clinton submitted a balanced budget for 1999, three years ahead of schedule originally proposed, making it the first time the federal budget had been balanced since 1969.[54]

Note that last sentence. The “better than expected” economy was Y2K that I wrote about earlier in this post. Clinton fought Newt on the balanced budget. He actually submitted 5 budgets before he got on the same page as the Republicans and agreed to the Newt budget. And check the videos for the collapse.

Gene, you have been lied to by the Democrats. You have a completely scrambled view of the world of politics. Pull your head out of the sand and find the truth. It won’t come from the mouths of elected Republicans or Democrats. Everything from both parties is spin, spin, spin. They are all corrupt liars. And you have to have a BS filter to know the truth.

Your’s is broken. You are welcome to be critical of what I write, but now that I have proven the things you believed are lies, I will not be responding to your wild falsehoods unless you include a link that disproves what I write. And I won’t accept a DNC post as proof. Nor do you see me offer any RNC crap as proof.

So unless you can prove something I write is incorrect at least equal to the documentation I enclosed in this post, I doubt that I will respond. Seek out the truth.

About Tom White

Tom is a US Navy Veteran, owns an Insurance Agency and is currently an IT Manager for a Virginia Distributor. He has been published in American Thinker, currently writes for the Richmond Examiner as well as Virginia Right! Blog.Tom lives in Hanover County, Va and is involved in politics at every level and is a Recovering Republican who has finally had enough of the War on Conservatives in progress with the Leadership of the GOP on a National Level.

49 Responses to “UPDATED: The Truth on Bush and the Economic Collapse of 2008 and Political Lies”

  1. W. S. Wright
    Twitter:
    says:

    Ladies & Gentlemen,

    It made my night to watch Mr White take down Gene the lefty with a good old fashion ass Whoop’in!

    I personally, I love it when Mr. White can’t take the lies no mo & decides to take the gloves off.

  2. Robert Shannon says:

    After 6 years of this type of exchange I have become capable of instantly identifying a diehard partisan.

    This guy memorizes talking points and passes them off as fact. Everything that goes wrong is a republican at fault and democrats are our saviors. It is as the training I went through many years ago taught me a textbook example of the ” sinner”

    Saints are always with you, and in a sense define a partisan, but they are on “your side”. Sinners are the most clearly and easily identifiable examples of partisans, they have only one view , ( they are the good guys ) and it is a colossal waste of time even to try and reason with them.

    The ” savable”, the ones who warrant reaching out to recognize the 2 major political parties have little distinguishing differences, with the sole exception of when campaign time rolls around. This citizen is worth attempting to work with. They have an open mind when partisans are beyond unreasonable–they hinder any progress with their rabid insistence that ” their side” has it right. I often have stated that the inclusion in the TEA Party movement only require the ability to do basic math.

    The Ruling class that Angelo Cordville refers to and defines is made up of the Bush’s the Clinton’s, the Obama’s —it is about control. Control of policy, control of regulations and taxes, control of grant money, control of Federal spending , control of energy policy, absolute control by any means possible.

    Unless and until more citizens are shaken from their apathy and disinterest noting will change. This election process has become a ritual without a purpose, because the ruling class has seized almost every single apparatus to insure continued control.

    Our economy is the first victim, and fluctuating gasoline prices, along with occasional tweaks to the tax code are side shows meant to create a temporary illusion that things are on occasion getting better, when the downward spiral is about as clear as could be to anyone with their eyes open, and not delusional with the partisan type of mentality that prevails with this particular person.

    Good analysis Tom, but you are wasting your precious time and energy with someone like this.

    Bob Shannon

  3. Jerry Gore says:

    Well said Tom and all based on truth! Something else which needs acknowledgement is that since Reagan, the field of GOP choices available to us has been so bloody terrible as to be repulsive, hence voter turnout was replaced with voter turnoff! This time I sense an awakening among turned-off voters who are plugging-in their charging cables again–not to the political tower of babble, but rather to the candid, fearless voices of smart, courageous citizen leaders such as Trump from the world of business and development and finance, and Cruz from a background of Cuban commie oppression and struggle who had the guts to call his lying senate leader a lier! And these voters are loving and reacting strongly with new enthusiasm to true leadership with courage from these fearless politically incorrect fighters for freedom who intend to reinstate constitutional government. These patriots may actually govern by keeping faith with God’s Ten Commandments, the Republican Creed and the OATH OF OFFICE required of them! Wouldn’t that be somethin? Holy mackerel–Great Balls of Fire !!!

  4. Gene Lefty says:

    1) Want to put up a chart showing gas prices? Then put on up a chart showing the entire 8 years Bush 43′ was in the White House. Use Clinton’s 8 years also if you like. Stop trying to deceive the base with half of something. I used approximate local gasoline prices.

    2) Stop making excuses for the Republican Party, and the poor performance of their Leadership. The President takes responsibility for everything that happens on his watch. Good or Bad. Using your “sorry assed excuse” type reasoning, no President is responsible for anything. It is always the other guy. But, that is the way you like it?

    3) One of the hallmarks of Republican leadership is to always blame the other guy when the numbers show quite the opposite. The Republican’s controlled all three branches of government from ABOUT 2000-2006. It was they who could have stopped the mortgage problem. As the majority, the responsibility was theirs.

    However, the party was making so much money off the bad mortgage’s and related rip off fee’s that they choose not to do so. In other words, the middle-class and poor were being financially taken advantage of when they purchased a home. The Republican’s were operating like a pig in slop. The slop being the middle-class and poors cash. Basically, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac money was ending up in Republican’s pockets.

    I believe that the chairman of the Federal Reserve under Bush 43′ at least apologized for his part in destroying our economy. However, Bush 43′ never did. Why did Greenspan apologize if what I say is not true? Just what did Greenspan apologize for?

    4) You failed to comment on who is to be held responsible for 911??? Does that mean you will tell us later? Perhaps next time someone mentions Bengazi? And, to top it all off, Bush 43′ promoted his National Security Adviser to Secretary of State?? What a frekin’ joke that was???????

    5) Hello Bob, thanks for your rhetoric. I have offered to debate the Tea Party openly on topics such as ObamaCare on at least 2 occasions. I was turned down both times. Why are you afraid of your people being told the truth? Do their marching orders have to come thru 1140 AM and Faux News? What are you afraid of Bob, losing control when your people find out that they have been fleeced?

    6) My words have the power of the truth, Tom. Your word processor has been running on Viagra for far too long.

    Your Friend,

    Gene

  5. Dawna Lee
    Twitter:
    says:

    Man ole’ Man I love people like Gene Lefty b/c he is so good at giving us a glimpse into self-destructive mindless rhetoric of a clueless one sided overly partisan ultra liberal that totally proves Bob Shannon’s above response.

  6. Gene Lefty says:

    One thing that is key to your reasoning, Tom?

    You want the Republican’s in the House and Senate to wrongly take credit for the budget that Clinton balanced during his 8 years as President.

    Now, in your rant, about 6 years later, you want to blame the minority party in the House and Senate (Democrats) for the mortgage crisis, when the Republican’s had majority control in the House and Senate, plus the White House.

    How does that work, Tom? Nothing but “base bait”. You cannot have it both ways.

    • Tom White says:

      I responded in this post.

      • Gene Lefty says:

        1) Only ignorance would defend an oilman President, who according to your own chart created an economy where gasoline went from $1.45 to $4.06 a gallon. An increase of nearly 300%, 279% to be exact. Obama has not topped that.

        2) The number one job of the Federal government is to protect this country and it’s citizens. Only ignorance would defend a President who allowed an attack on our home soil where almost 3000 died. No one in government yet held responsible.

        3) Only ignorance would believe that the Republican’s had control of all three branches of government, knew about the mortgage problems by your own admission, and say, by golly it was those minority Democrats who were responsible for the mortgage crisis.

        4) Only ignorance would believe that someone who flies around in a $100 million business jet is a Conservative.

        5) Only ignorance would believe that Trump is telling the truth.

        6). I am an Independent.

        7) The Wiki post that you used tells just how good the Clinton economy was doing in 1998,

        “In early 1998, with the economy performing better than expected, increased tax revenues helped reduce the federal budget deficit to below $25 billion. Clinton submitted a balanced budget for 1999, three years ahead of schedule originally proposed, making it the first time the federal budget had been balanced since 1969.[54]”

        Notice, “just how good the Clinton economy was doing in 1998”, and “economy performing better than expected”, and “Clinton submitted a balanced budget for 1999”.

        “Clinton submitted”, no one else.

        And then what happened? Along came Bush 43′ and destroyed this country. And what do you do? You defend him. You gotta love it!

        Your friend always,

        Gene Lefty

        • Tom White says:

          Gene. You need to go back on your meds. You have proven that you are ignorant and fact-blind. I don’t know if you are unable to comprehend written words or what your problem is. Liberalism is a disease and you prove that time and again.

          You provided no links and show a complete lack of an ability to understand the written word.

          For example, I clearly wrote that the economy was doing better than expected because of the massive buying for Y2K. Did you miss that?

          The Republicans submitted one budget and Clinton submitted 4 different ones because the Republicans would not accept any of his. The 5th one he submitted was the exact same as the Gingrich budget word for word. He submitted a budget, but Gingrich wrote it.

          I would suggest that in addition to going back on your meds you take a reading comprehension class or two.

          Your response shows you did not read what I wrote nor did you watch the videos.

          But I know liberals better than they know themselves. And I could have written your nonsensical response myself.
          Tom White recently posted…Our Weasel Of The Week Nominees!My Profile

  7. Victoria Luck says:

    Gene Lefty is absolute proof that it is near impossible to debate, dialouge, & reason with anyone in which the truth, logic, & data to support both does NOT matter to them what soever.

    • Gene Lefty says:

      Apparently the majority of Americans agree with me. That is why McCain, Romney, Cuccinnelli, Gillespie, Allen, and many others, have all been soundly rejected by the voters. The TRUTH.

      My posts are 100% the truth. Just use Toms post to prove that what I wrote is true. Just like I did.

  8. Gene Lefty says:

    Tom, it is also interesting to note that the U.S. House had a Democrat majority during the Reagan administration. So, using your line of reasoning where Newt Gingrich gets credit for Clinton balancing the budget?

    Do the the Democrats get credit for the Reagan economy, Reganomics? So it was the Democrats, not Reagan who put this country back on the road to prosperity in the 80’s.

    It is your own convoluted thinking , Tom.

    • Tom White says:

      Gene – people who do the deeds get the credit or the blame. It is not some blanket absolute that the political makeup of a body has anything to do with anything.

      Again, the meds. Please. You Are making a fool of yourself.
      Tom White recently posted…Our Weasel Of The Week Nominees!My Profile

      • Gene Lefty says:

        Since 1992, only one Republican has won election to president by popular vote. In 2004.

        That tells the story. You can name call, spin, distort the facts and numbers all you want.

        This country chose the right candidate to put in the White House in 2008 and 2012. This country chose the right candidate by popular vote in 2000.

        You can go back to listening to Limbaugh now. The only that one you will believe.

        The question in your mind should be, will a Republican ever live in the White House again?

  9. Simon Jones says:

    Gene reminds me of that age old adage:

    If you’re 20 and not liberal you don’t have a heart and if you’re 40 and not conservative you don’t have a brain.

    • Tom White says:

      I have been dealing with this phenomenon for years. They are so brainwashed by the left that no matter how much proof or evidence you present, they always make excuses and try to blame Republicans using completely absurd statements. For the life of me I cannot understand how someone’s thoughts can be so scrambled. It boils down to logic I think. Liberals are only to think emotionally, so logic completely escapes them. Those of us who are able to think logically can look at evidence and facts and form our own opinion. Emotional liberals depend on someone else to tell them what to think, and after that liberal propaganda is implanted, they are unable to logically analyze the data. So when they are challenged with facts that prove their thinking is wrong, all they have is emotion and false information on which to make an argument. And of course that cannot possibly make sense. So it is like us logical thinkers are speaking a completely different language to emotional thinkers. The Democrats have figured out that the key is to first emotionally convince their drones that all Republicans are bad and everything they say is wrong. No matter what it is. So their mental basis becomes an emotional hatred based on falsehoods. But as these falsehoods are the very foundation of their mental process, they are completely unable to allow any argument whatsoever to sway them, or else they have nothing left. We logical thinkers, on the other hand, are able to think emotionally but have the ability to evaluate everything logically. So we are able to reevaluate something we believe in and, given a persuasive fact-filled argument, we can then change our minds because logic and truth are more important than any underlying emotion. And this is not limited to Democrats only. RINO’s are exactly the same. No matter how much proof you show them that Boehner and McConnell and people like Eric Cantor are liars, they still fall in behind them. Look at the people who think Bob McDonnell somehow got railroaded. Do you think he can wear the Rolex in jail?

      But much of Gene’s problem, like a lot of Liberals, is that they really don’t understand the complex processes that go on in DC. They can only comprehend simple concepts because the complex requires logic, which they don’t have. And sadly, they never will.

      And that is why so many Conservatives get frustrated talking to the liberal drones. Or the RINO’s. They are unable to understand why, after being presented with an overwhelming amount of proof and truth liberals and RINO’s are not persuaded. It is because you present them with something they can’t understand. Logic.

      It is best explained when you compare libs and RINO’s with dumb animals. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. You can show a liberal proof he is wrong, but it will never register.

      And it is either a birth defect or a mental deficiency. Who can say?

      With Debbie Wasserman-Schultz as their brain-trust, I’m not surprised.

  10. Paula Smith says:

    And just as one of the other replies above stated, that’s why we love Gene Gene the liberal machine.

    He gives us a look at the perfect match of that psycho-analytical profile.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Not going to comment on the main substance of the post since there’s the back and forth from other commentators, but do have a general question. Tom, you reference Y2K a lot to make a lot of economic arguments (this isn’t the first post). To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen any economic study or statistical analysis in any journal or published literature that has established a major link to Y2K-fear related consumer/firm purchasing as generating enough activity to singlehandedly drive the economy or increase government revenues to balance the budget. Are you looking at evidence I’m not or is this just a gut-feeling you have (even when persuasive, gut instincts aren’t always a reliable substitute for data-crunching and analysis.)

  12. Economics 101 says:

    Anonymous,

    Nothing ever drives the economy “singlehandedly”.

    With a simple google search I found thousands of supportive documents for Tom’s assertion re Y2K. Did u even try to search?

    The U.S. government report on Y2K even states there was a substantial uptick in all economic related activity.

    http://www.esa.doc.gov

  13. Gene Lefty says:

    How about a link that actually works Eco 101? I mean Tom? I bet you are Tom.

    Again, the bottom line is that no matter what was driving the economy, President Clinton was at the wheel. You cannot change that. So what do you do? Make excuses.

    For one to try to try rewrite the economic success that we enjoyed during the Clinton admin is flat out evil, stupid, and ignorant.

    But, for one to try to justify the economic destruction caused by the Bush 43′ administration? Well, only a small child would do something like that.

  14. Gene Lefty says:

    Here is a link and quote that says just the opposite of what you say Tom???

    http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/NACDA/studies/1277\

    “Although solid Y2K spending data are lacking, the evidence presented in this paper indicates that the magnitude and timing of Y2K-related expenditures make it unlikely that the investment boom and bust was a Y2K event.”

    You are just making excuses, Tom.

  15. Simon Jones says:

    Gene,

    Paleeeeeze!

    In an extreme effort to find a talking point, your true colors always come out re your inability to analyze data & utilize critical thinking.

    On the very first page of your link it states that your research group of choice does research to “expand social science” (which everyone knows is code for liberal bias) not financial analysis and that they have “not checked or processed this material.”

    • Tom White says:

      Gene does not have a clue when it comes to actual facts and data. He is a Debbie Wasserman-Schultz liberal. Emotion only. Note how he picks on insignificant statements on which to base his rebuttal. Typical liberal tactic. He cannot comprehend the fact that the late 90’s economy did “better than expected”. Why was that? Because several years earlier when the expectations were set in the form of predictions by GAO and other government agencies charged with predicting the economic future out several years, at the same time Gingrich was crunching numbers in order to create the budget that would balance in 4 years, the Y2K bug was unknown. Or at least only a fringe discussion. Nothing that was expected to impact the economy in the mid 90’s. So the impact of Y2K was never a part of the budget predictions. What was the impact? It depends on who you ask. And there are no exact figures, only a better than expected economy in the last couple of years of the 90’s. Did Y2K have an impact? Absolutely. I was a Senior Engineer at the time and every tech company in the world was recording massive and record sales due entirely to Y2K. And much of the estimated $500 – 600 billion spending worldwide ended up in the US. While the US alone spent $100 billion, the world spent many times that. In 1999 I was flying all over the world updating equipment. And every company in the country was hiring. One offered me a job at double my salary, 4 day work week, personal assistant that would run errands like groceries, cleaning, etc. But the job was in the DC area. I joked that I would not drive from Richmond to DC every day and asked for a helicopter. They offered a limo to pick me up and drive me home. Gene has no idea how massive the impact was. I was there. I was a part of the boom. But there is no doubt that Y2K had an impact on the US economy. That is what I am saying. And when you add in the Dot Com boom, the start up boom – in other words the tech sector boom – it played a significant part in the “better than predicted” economy which enabled the balanced budget. You will note that Gene nor anyone else can point to a singl4e Clinton policy that was not forced on him by Gingrich that played a part in the balanced budget. In addition, where Gene likes to believe I only make excuses for Republicans – whom I mostly hate – he ignores the fact that I credit the abrupt end of Y2K boom in 1/1/2000 and the subsequent Dot Com bust as responsible for the Clinton recession that Bush inherited. I do not blame Clinton for that. I am only pointing out truth here. And anyone that knows me is well aware that I am absolutely no apologist or blind follower of Republicans. But he accuses me of that and being a Limbaugh fan because it fits his narrative. The truth is, I rarely listen to talk radio. I am a musician. I prefer music. I have argued with far better liberals than Gene. They all use the same laughable tactics, Gene is just a rank amateur at it.
      Tom White recently posted…The Council Has Spoken – Our Watcher’s Council ResultsMy Profile

    • Gene Lefty says:

      Didn’t like my link?

      Well, here is a quote from the link Tom posted above. Quote is from a guy named is Robert J. Shapiro. THIS IS FROM YOUR LINK, TOM!!!!!!!

      “The truth is, no one knows with certainty what the precise economic consequences will be. It is our best judgment that Y2K problems will not be of sufficient size or scope to have more than a transient effect on U.S. economic growth.”

      Your link Tom? You are the one that doesn’t have a frekin’ clue. You are dealing from the bottom of the deck dude. Quit lying to the base!

  16. Stephen Lee
    Twitter:
    says:

    Since Gene seems to “know so much”, why not give him a blogger spot on VA Right and have him point out all the good things his liberals are doing and how those things have been helpful for America (w/ documentation)?

    Instead of him just aimlessly trolling VA Right in order to slam Republicans with regurgiated Debbie Wasserman Schultz & PMSNBC bumper sticker type talking points.

  17. Tim Riley says:

    Liberals are infuriating aren\’t they?

  18. Tim Riley says:

    Liberals are infuriating aren’t they?

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